Internet Marketing Blog

Markëting Masters Interview Series

DEMC E-Magazine

"Revered Online Markëting Expert Frank Kern"
By: Mike Merz


Originally known for his highly popular 'Instant Internet
Empires', Mr. Kern's success outside the general Internet
Markëting niche, explained in depth in "The Under
Achiever Formula" system (with partner, Ed Dale)
(UnderAchieverFormula.com), has won Frank a
new legion of followers that consider him a driving force
behind the widespread interest in Niche Markëting.


As with any successful Online business person, Frank Kern
is obviously no stranger to high level ëmail markëting
tactics.


Let's tap into the mind of one of Internet Markëting's
premier "under achievers", and learn a few of the email
strategies he employs.


MM


Thanks for agreeing to participate, Frank ...
... it's an absolute thrill to have you here.


FK


My pleasure.


MM


How important a part does ëmail markëting play in your
day to day operations, Frank?


FK


Not much, actually. I have a huge list but I rarely mail
them. Most of my traffic and revenue is generated through
paid advertising such as Google Ad Words and Overture.


I used to rely heavily on email, but the Can Spam law and
the proposed government bounty on spammers made me
find another way to market. I'd rather not worry about
some moron crying "spam" and then having a lawyer
hassle me as a result.


MM


It's often said that building a list of targeted prospects is
the key to Online success ... what's your opinion on this?


FK


I don't think it's THE key - but it certainly helps. But I
think too much emphasis is placed on list building. This is
a tricky area, really.


What I'm trying to say is this:


If you rely entirely on ONE source of traffic and business -
you're toast. Because you've built your house on one pillar
- so to speak.


I think that it's a better idea to build a list of people who
are absolutely dying to hear from you ...instead of basically
stockpiling names.


In other words, quality is better than quantity.


MM


How about multiple lists?


FK


I actually have multiple lists for multiple markets. It's a
good idea. The way I generate them is to offer something
of high perceived value in exchange for their subscription.


Then I constantly give them really good stuff and weave
the sales presentation into the content.


MM


Are you a proponent of building numerous sub lists, as
opposed to a few general prospect/customer contact
databases?


FK


I think it's an excellent idea but I don't do it. I should.
Everyone should. It just makes sense. I've been a bit lazy:-)


MM


On the flip side, it has been said that due to advanced
filtering, trigger happy SP*M blacklist organizations, and
the CAN-SP*M Act of 2003, that ëmail markëting is
"dead" ... your opinion?


FK


I think it could be in serious trouble. However - if you
have a list of people who are really, really eager to hear
from you ...and they've legitimately opted in to your list
...and you send them things of value instead of bombarding
them with ads, then I think you'll be OK. Nobody
complains about getting email from their friends. And
that's how you should treat your list. As your friends.


Especially if you develop lists in small, ultra targeted
markets.


MM


How have you, personally, dealt with the aforementioned?


FK


I revamped my entire business. If it became illegal to send
email tomorrow, it wouldn't have a major effect on my
income.


Naturally, I don't think that'll happen - but like I said
earlier - it's best to create traffic streams from multiple
sources, and focus on turning that traffic into a customer
base.


MM


Where do you stand regarding the great HTML vs. text
debate? Do you have a preference? Which format has
shown you a higher conversion rate?


FK


I've had better luck with text. When I did a lot of email
markëting, I would buy mail drops to millions of people.
This was opt in, mind you. Not spam.


Anyway - I found that a short text email got the highest
clickthroughs.


But naturally the solution is to test one versus the other
because I think it'll change depending on the market you're
selling to. For example - if you have a list of graphic
artists, they'd probably be responsive to highly visual
HTML.


A list of accountants would probably respond better to
plain text.


MM


Do you have any tips and/or tricks that you'd like to share
with our readers?


How to build a list effectively?


Increase conversions?


Develop a relationship with your subscribers?


FK


The main tip I'd have is learn to make your business
survive in the event that email becomes impractical due to
filters or litigation ...or both. It's very dangerous to be
completely reliant on only one source of traffic and
customers.


There are multitudes of other traffic sources out there.
Banners, PPC, comparison sites ...just to name a few.


I'm not saying to give up on list building, but it's time to
find other ways to generate traffic.


I've had a chance to preview John Reese's highly
anticipated course, Traffic Secrets, recently.


This is a guy who's had over a BILLION visitors ...
without worrying over a list.


Anyway - that's a great course. I'd give you a link but it's
not out yet. When it comes out, get it.


Also- if you do build a list - which you should if you do it
*right*, be sure to give so much content your readers will
actually get mad if they DON'T hear from you.


One way I've done this in multiple markets is to make
screencam videos for them. Multimedia has a high
perceived value.


The bottom line is if you have a list of people who:


1. Actually joined your list as a result of going to your site
and filling in a form.


2. Absolutely love hearing from you.


...Then you'll be less likely to ever worry about getting into
trouble as the "email climate" becomes harsher.


Again - it's the quality of the list ...not the quantity that
will make you money.


Here's an example.


Back to John Reese. He has a list of about 3,000 people.
This is a tiny list. But these folks are fanatics. They love
him. And they buy like crazy. I was on the phone with
him one day when he did over $100,000.00 in sales in a
few HOURS to this list.


How?


He gives them extremely good content. With a list - it's all
about the relationship. If you have hundreds of thousands
of subscribers ...but they don't think much of what they get
from you, then you don't really have much.


MM


In closing, are you currently working on anything new that
you'd like to give us the 'inside line' on?


... in the near future?


FK


I don't really sell much to the "markëting" crowd anymore.
I've been threatening to release a video series for newbies
that shows how to do ULTRA basic stuff like "make a file
downloadable"... but I haven't yet. I have so much fun
publishing info products to small niche markets that I keep
that project on the back burner.


MM


Thank you so much for making time for us, Frank ...


I know you've been running 24/7!


FK


No problem.



Future "ëMail Markëting Master" interviews are being
booked as of this writing to be run in DEMC in the months
to come ...


So stay tuned!


Who would YOU like to see featured in our series?


Send your requests to DEMC@im4newbies.com and I'll do
my best to track them down!


Regards,
Mike Merz

PS

Be sure to check out Frank's (and Ed Dale's) UnderAchieverFormula.com.